ASTM has put in writing that the ponded water test found in ASTM e 1514 ( specification for a structural standing seam roof ) is ASTM 2140 ( water submersion of roof panel). Why does NCI and MBCI continue to deceive. I will be posting the letter and that of MBCI’s independent engineer which states that 1/4: 12 is a hydrostatic roof. Why would a Public Company continue to deceive. One would think that the Private Equity CD&R and the Board of Directors would be ethical and honest. I know the truth and have the documents to prove it. What do they gain by deception? OH that’s right, a multi billion dollar Private equity and Billion Dollar Public Corporation gets away with false testimony in court.
The Bible teaches that purity of conduct includes truthfulness. “Sincerity and truth are what you require; fill my mind with your wisdom”. Psalms 51-6.
In my disgust for MBCI and the lies they told and continue to tell about Ultra Deck I forgot to mention that NCI does have good products. They just screwed the pooch with what they said about Ultra Deck and people do know the truth. Even NCI Board of Directors, but money not honesty and integrity rule them.
The Oklahoma Plant Sales Manager at the time and a man that I bought The Ultra Deck Roof from for more than a Decade and a 23 year sales employee of MBCI was a Truthful man and although we don’t speak anymore I would assume he still is. He is no longer employed by MBCI and was not employed at trial. However, he swore under oath that MBCI sold me the Ultra Deck as a water tight (hydrostatic) roof and that is the way MBCI marketed the Ultra Deck roof. I will also add that he was angry with me because this fact and all conversations were recorded as part of phone system quality control program.I also have Wayne Dickinson admitting the roof is Hydrostatic. He agreed the roof had been submerged in water, again hydrostatic test. But I digress. I publicly want to than Cody Rodden for being a man of Integrity and telling the TRUTH. The only one at NCI/MBCI who did.
The statement below was taken from a very good article I found on the invention of the standing seam roof panel.
Any deterioration of the sealant in these endlap joints would permit wind gusts to drive water into the joints, causing leakage. At numerous places along the roof, there are areas where two end panels and two adjacent side panels form a four-corner intersection. This area is particularly difficult to seal. Watertightness of the roof has been a recurring problem in standing seam roofs.
I would say I agree with the above article. I would like to add that if an improper amount of mastic or none at all existed in the panel then this would cause leaks by wind driven rain as well.
See Below Link To Read More:
A water-shedding, or hydro-kinetic roof, also known as an architectural roof, relies on a steep slope to shed rainwater immediately. These roofs typically incorporate the water-shedding capabilities in the architectural design of the roof itself, which gives rise to the term used to describe them. This roof is ideal for buildings where aesthetics are important, because the inbuilt water resistance is less obvious and just as secure.
Water-shedding roofs need an optimum gradient of at least 3:12 to begin with, which allows the water to run off down to the downspouts and drainage system. Dramatic visual effects are created using low profile standing seam panels with little to no exposed fasteners. The structural design of this style of metal roof is particularly important to provide adequate support for the shape and load of the roof, and installation usually includes an underlayment such as a 30-lb roofing felt or an adhesive-backed ice and water shield.
This article appears at the website of Whirlwind Steel:
How can MBCI claim in court that their roof to be water-shedding only but state on their website that the minimum slope is 1/4:12. Is MBCI right and everyone else wrong? Every where I read, a water shedding roof is to be installed on a minimum 3:12 slope. The right people have not seen this information yet.
Evil wins again due to apathy. People deserve what they get because they lack courage to stand up and fight the bully.
I am going to rethink how to fight this injustice. Friends I thought were friends are not. They are acquaintances. That is OK , My friend is my wife as it should be and she is afraid for my life as she knows what MBCI and their lies have done to me. She knows that I would fight NCI /Mbci to my last breath as I believe in fighting for the truth. I fought and have continued to fight for more than 5 years. I went to Tim McElroy for the truth about Ultra Deck and he told me that it was developed as a roof to compete with the Butler MR 24 which by the way is a water barrier roof. I went to Leo Neyer, who developed the Ultra Deck, and he told me that he is the man who built the water tank and submerged the ultra deck under water and that it was a hydrostatic roof (water barrier). Terry Wolfe (owner of Force Engineering) emailed me stating that anyone who says that 1/4:12 is not hydrostatic is insane, he even said to use the definitions from Fema. I even spoke with the project manager from Locke Bowden and she told me that 1/4:12 is hydrostatic. Wolfe, Bowden and Faranbaugh all approve this roof for sale in Florida at 1/4:12 and Florida says 1/4:12 is hydrostatic. Whirlwind Steel also said their version of Ultra Deck is hydrostatic as has Central States. I know the truth and so do the executives at NCI/MBCI. They are cowards and sold me roofs that did not meet their own standards ( written in letter from Andrew Costa): Mr. Costa was the General Counsel of MBCI. The chairman of the board of NCI, Norm Chambers and the board of directors are covering up the truth about the Ultra Deck and the problems with this roof. It did not just start in 2008 but years before, I know because I have 200 internal emails that tell the story about the problem and the cover up.
Don’t you think it strange that MBCI said I owed them $ 360,000.00 : The exact amount of money with held from me by the owners because of leaks at the side laps of Ultra Deck. Now I built buildings across the United States and in Canada. Dozens of suppliers and every one got paid, 30 years and paid the invoices. I however did not pay for defective material or pay an invoice unless it was correct. Mbci sent a roof inspector to Florida, he opened the roof and said there was not enough sealant and he noted several area where he got the roof to leak with nothing more than a water hose. Wayne Dickinson admitted to me he had a major problem at production facilities because Kenny Buchinger told him another roof I had in Florida had the same problem. Wayne Dickinson was shocked because the roofs came from two different manufacturing plants. In court they did not tell the truth. They said Ultra Deck needs no sealant period. Now I know that is not true as does any engineer, Terry Wolfe, Daniel Faranbaugh, Locke Bowden, Tim McElroy. Even the judge knew it because he read the 200 documents. The ICC ,ASTM , MBMA, and the International Building Code know that Ultra Deck must have mastic. But MBCI told the court it does nor need mastic and if it did then Wayne Dickinson said he would not have sued me and would have replaced my customers roofs. I challenge the new president of MBCI and all the salesmen who beat a path to my door to be honest and tell the truth. You wont because you are not an honest company. It was easier for you to lie in court about the problem and destroy me than admit the truth. Remember I have the 200 documents. Why don’t you release them so the truth can come out, oh that’s right you are never wrong even when you admit that your roof doesn’t meet your own standards. Sorry about that for you, I don’t sell seconds or defective products to my customers. You do ,I do not. Ask Janus International, (a good and honest manufacture) it took David Curtis and his team along with me and my son working for six months to find out the root cause of a problem and when it was identified Janus end especially David Curtis and Joe Bricker with Sandy and my son to fix the problem. David Curtis and Janus and their supplier replaced over 3000 doors , the exact total I not sure of as it continues. Now Mr. Curtis did this during slow economic times since 2008. We argued , fought, talked, discussed to fix this problem but the only concern Mr. Curtis and I had was for the end user, the owners. Just the opposite of NCI/ MBCI. Even though contained in the 200 documents and 30 years of experience all NCI/MBCI could do was say “not our fault”, Vern doesn’t know what he is doing. Ya right, after installing 10 million sf of Ultra Deck. There are to many sulliers who know me, to many customers who know me, to many engineers who know me, and way to many salesmen who know me that know I don’t lie and will fight for the right of my customers. But in this fight against NCI/MBCI and their lie machine and a stupid Judge with the backing of the private equity firm who bought them in 2008 or NCI was going file for bankruptcy I stand alone. My customers asked me to fight for them , I did, then they turned their back on me as has the rest of the Metal Roofing Industry. MBCI or should I ay Wayne Dickinson stated in court that the Ultra Deck was never a water barrier roof. That it is only a water shedding roof but you can put it on 1/4:12 roof slope. WRONG ! On top of that Wayne Dickinson and their Law Firm Bracewell Giuliani and especially the lawyer ( Richard Whitely) new that roof was sold to me and marketed as a water tight roof. The Oklahoma City plant sales manager testified under oath to that fact and Richard Whitely affirmed the Ultra Deck was a water tight roof. The question is how did I loose in court? The answer is simple. The verdict was bought and paid for, not with money, but with political power and a corrupt legal system in Houston Texas. An Honest man has no chance against a 30 billion dollar private equity firm and a Public Corporation that simply will not tell the truth about their products.
Thank you for reading my diatribe. I promised my customers I would fight for them until I was bankrupt or died. One has happened and the other is very close at hand. I will have to break one of those promises. I can not let myself die. My wife means more to me than my promise. It is for her that I am going to try and regain my health, and as she begged me last night, Put it in God’s Hands. Please. So God here it is, tell me what you want me to do.
I will be posting on u-tube video of the roof leaking by simply holding a water hose 3 feet above the roof. This roof is the Ultra Deck by MBCI and The roof from Whirlwind which is an exact copy.
I will also post what MBCI executives said about Ultra Deck. NCI you can run but the truth will win the day. Did you tell A R Ginn that the roof that built his fortune is not water tight at the side laps per Astm E 1514. Wayne Dickinson, you said the roof needs no sealant to pass any test. Without mastic it wont pass ASTM 1646 found in your own manual. But then you couldn’t tell the truth in court. Did Force Engineering or Faranbaugh tell you that. No, I didn’t think so. Strange that you told me that the roof had been submerged in water. And that the mastic was viable??? Now we both know the truth about that one. If NCI and MBCI are truthful then release the 200 documents. Oh that is right, your vice president of manufacturing said in deposition, under oath that the roof would come unlocked with out the proper mastic. He said that in 2009, but in 2011 he said the roof needs no mastic. You all sounded like Parrots!
Found some interesting information that will help educate the public. The following are definitions from MBMA (Metal Building Manufacturers Association) Metal Building System Manual. The definitions define the 2 basic types of standing seam roof panels.
Metal panel systems that are designed to withstand being submersed in water for a period of time are called hydrostatic panels. Hydrostatic roof details rely on sealant to keep water from infiltrating the joints and seams. Hydrostatic roof details can be used at almost any slope (1/4:12 minimum).
Metal panel systems that are designed to shed water are referred to as hydrokinetic. Hydrokinetic roof details are typically devoid of sealant and rely on water to freely shed over the joints. Hydrokinetic roof details are not to be used on roof slopes below 3:12.
Also found the following information at ehow.com.
Define a Structural Standing Seam Roof
By Ann Salter, eHow Contributor
• Print this article
Standing seam roofing systems are composed of durable , overlapping, preformed panels secured with concealed fasteners and can be divided into two basic categories: structural and architectural. Structural standing seam roofing benefits from increased strength, water-tightness and design flexibility over architectural panel systems.
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o Structural, standing seam roofing panels have greater spanning capabilities and resistance to wind uplift. Designed for structural stability, they can be installed spanning over purlins instead of a solid deck, allowing for a lighter roof.
o The structural standing seam roof’s taller seams, mechanical joining and factory-applied sealants combine to form a water-tight system, even at extremely low slopes. Structural panels, unlike architectural, can be installed on slopes as low as 1/4:12, and can even be mounted vertically as a wall panel.
o Structural standing seam panels are available in much longer lengths than architectural. Factory-formed sheets can be shipped in more than 80-foot lengths, and the lengths of field-formed sheets are virtually unlimited. Clip attachment systems allow for necessary thermal expansion and contraction of longer panels
In conclusion….my opinion is that if a company claims that their standing seam roof is water shedding only, it should not be installed on any slope less than 3:12. I know there is at least one company that claims their standing seam roof panel is watershedding roof and not hydrostatic, but yet they still install sealant in the panels during fabrication…….?….what’s that all about. They also sell this panel for applications of less then 3:12 slope. They may deny knowing it was to be installed on a slope of less than 3:12 and at the same time will sell along with this panel the support purlins manufactured to a slope of less than 3:12 along with accompanying gutter. It is not hard to see what’s going on here. SELL THE PRODUCT….THEN REFUSE WARRANTY BECAUSE OF IMPROPER INSTALLATION…..AND PLAY DUMB ABOUT ANY BEFORE HAND KNOWLEDGE.
” Answer: A Standing Seam Roof.”
Question ? What do the following people have in common ?
1. Wayne Dickinson 4. Norman Chambers 7. Gary Forbes 10. George Martinez
2. Ken Buchinger 5. Kathleen Affeldt 8. John Holland 11. Nathan Sleeper
3. Mark Dobson 6. James Berges 9. Lawrence Kremer 12. Jonathan Zrebiec